-----Question----- From: Ed Lazowska Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 10:43 PM To: phycos at u dot washington dot edu Cc: Ed Lazowska Subject: A question ... Hi, Chuck. Got a question for you ... One of our first-year graduate students cornered me this morning with an IP question. Over the past year, he came up with an idea that might at some point be commercializable. He did some preliminary work on it, on his own, verifying that there was some promise. Then he dropped it to come to graduate school. The general area of the idea might also be a worthwhile thesis research area -- not the specific application he has in mind, but the general technique. Here's what he's wondering: Suppose a couple of years from now he wants to try to commercialize this idea. And suppose he does some research on a closely related topic. How would one determine what he owns and what UW owns (and he must license)? Is there any sense in him writing down -- either for you or for the file -- the ideas that he is bringing into UW with him? He spent much of the past year consulting for a company, and when he went to work for them, they had him list stuff that was in his head, and he listed this -- common in employment agreements. It's this that brought the question to his mind -- should he list the stuff he's bringing in his head to UW, so that there is on dispute regarding ownership of the idea later? -----Answer----- From: Charles R. Williams, J.D., Ph.D. Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 9:39 PM To: Ed Lazowska Subject: RE: A question ... Hi Ed, Sorry for the slow reply..got sidetracked with parenting. Short Answer/Recommendation: A student could place a sealed notarized statement in his/her student file at CSE that will be opened and reviewed in the event that an innovation is made on the idea that they think they brought with them. At that time, we will make a determination if the information is sufficient to rise to the level of conception, and if necessary will consult with an outside patent attorney to make sure we got it right. As part of the student's file, this gives the student the best protection with respect to disclosure at a public institution because of FERPA and student privacy. Additional thinking: It is very common for companies to ask prospective employees to list prior obligations and private IP in an employment agreement. Smart practice. We face some different issues here that (of course) complicate the landscape. But, there are definitely instances where a clear record of past work would be very useful! Companies simply bar an employee from bringing in personal IP (or IP from a prior employer). The company would require rights in the disclosed work to invest company resources in it (or bar the employee from working on it). Universities are in general more flexible and don't force assignment of rights (or exclusion of general ideas) on entry. We typically make a determination at a later date as to where the chips fall. This is sometimes painful and having accurate information regarding the history of development would be very helpful! BUT.the cost of administering a centrally managed IP intake review system and the resulting review of relationships under the watchful WA state ethics law (no use of state resources for a private gain) would be problematic at best. Further complication--Work under Federal Funding also brings in the Bayh-Dole regulations. Bayh-Dole brings university ownership into the picture if the invention was conceived OR "reduced to practice" under the grant. Plenty of cases where something was conceived prior to work under the grant but reduced to practice at the institution. In these cases, the university owns the invention. Disclosure upfront won't change the university ownership result where Federal dollars are involved in reducing to practice. Want to make sure incoming folks are not surprised by this result. It is definitely a good idea for an incoming graduate student (particularly a student that has been working in industry) to discuss his/her past work with their future supervisor or grad advisor. As an example, we are helping Brian Curless manage Dan Goldman's relationship with ILM. If there appears to be some concern with respect to personal work or possible issues with a former (or current) employer, it would be in everyone's interest for the student to document the prior work/relationship. If a student brings up a concern or the faculty member spots a potential problem, the student can put the notarized record in their file and we all then have something to go back to if commercialization (or even just distribution) occurs. The approach we have used to try and help manage IP rights more effectively on a case by case basis is to have research projects setup their own Participation Agreement that includes a section addressing possible conflicts due to prior work/relationships and under what terms prior work will be shared. Individual PIs decide whether their research work on a particular project requires the more formal rights management that a Participation Agreement anticipates. Usually the triggers to put a PA in place are things like an industry sponsored relationship, proprietary data, contributors with prior work that may be included in the research, or collaborations that anticipate specific distribution paths for research artifacts. In the end, we often need to aggregate IP to put something useful into play and distribute it. Imagine a case where a grad student has an idea they bring into UW and it is indeed patentable. Lets say he/she collaborates with a number of other students on elements of the method and the other students are hard core GNU folks while the student is more entrepreneurial. The student files a patent based on his/her idea prior to UW entry and the other students start to distribute code implementing the patented method under a GNU license. Under copyright law, authors can non-exclusively distribute (need to share equally in financial gain). The students have no rights under the patent though BUT GNU grants a license to any patent that covers code. Ugly result for everyone. Interesting stuff. Cheers, Chuck Charles R. Williams, J.D., Ph.D. Director Office of Software & Copyright Ventures University of Washington Box 354990 Seattle, WA 98195 (206) 616-3451 Fax (206) 616-3322 http://depts.washington.edu/ventures